Anyone race this weekend at Laguna? Heard it was the typical crash fest in the sport racer formula car group?
Laguna Seca Results???
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 anthonyhill |
Laguna Seca Results??? |
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Posts: 5 06/30/08 14:50:46 |
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Stan |
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Posts: 1836 06/30/08 15:13:50 |
Discussion on ApexSpeed: "Red Mist" Double Reg'l.
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David Arken |
Saturday Race | #2 | ||
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Posts: 636 06/30/08 15:33:29 |
The Saturday race was reasonabely clean, the results were not out when I left 3 hours later but I know Fabian won in DSR and posted an impressive time near the
lap record.
David |
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D T Benner |
Results. | #3 | ||
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Posts: 70 06/30/08 15:45:15 |
For Saturdays Race-
1st. DSR-Fabian Okonski (set a new DSR race record 1:26.986) 5th. OA(over all) 2nd.DSR- Perry Richardson 11th. OA 3rd. DSR- Michael Clauss 12th. OA Sunday's race- 1st.DSR-Perry Richardson 7th. OA 2nd.DSR-John Howarth 8th. OA 3rd.DSR-Fabian Okonski 10th. OA Saturdays Race saw the Pole sitting Pro Mazda make contact early in the race resulting in a bent front wing. he pitted for a new wing (he also has a complete SPARE car!) and rejoined only to make contact with another car resulting in him getting all 4 wheels in the air and being DQ'ed. Results were not final till almost 6 PM. Sundays race shortened to 21Min 40 seconds for clean up of multiple incidents. Start of race was a No Green and resulted in major contact deep in the 50 car field resulting in a few more laps before the green flag. Red Mist was displayed all weekend.
Last Edited By: D T Benner 06/30/08 15:54:56.
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EOBrien |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 327 06/30/08 17:01:30 |
Darryl,
Just a random thought here. I think one of the causes of the back in the pack issues during starts at Laguna might be the fact that with the large fields, the green is thrown when >1/2 of the field is still not around turn 11. This causes multiple issues. First, the low speed/side by side around 11 requires concentration that might otherwise be used to manage space with vehicles in front of and behind. Secondly, the above issue combined with the fact that the people without radios are suddenly dive bombed and run into by people with radios trying to get a jump and a few positions. Therefore, I guess the only solution is to make sure you qualify in the top 20. To loosely quote Bob Fox: Laguna is the track where you pay the most for the least laps. At least they've opened up the restrooms - finally.
~Eric
'99 A-MAC AM6 |
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MellowYellowCJ7 |
from the pit wall we could see the red mist too | #5 | ||
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Posts: 121 06/30/08 17:20:02 |
"At least they've opened up the restrooms - finally."
On Saturday, Fabian went off into the distance while John, Perry and Michael spent most of the race nose to tail behind a FM. I don't recall much drama in the race. The qualifying was split into two groups and that was very clean on Saturday. The first four DSRs qualified within a second (I think). The starter made the right call to wave off the start. There was a Pro Mazda that had passed 3 cars and obviously was 3 wide, so the green was not thrown. The accordion played its song and the people in the middle/back of the pack paid the price with some pretty heavy damage to a FC and a FM. The next attempt had a VERY late green. They were pretty close to the stand when it finally came out. The DSR's seemed to run most of the weekend nose to tail, except when the FA/FB/Mazdas slipped in between. At the end of the Sunday race there was 4 seconds from 1st to 4th. Of course there were very few green laps. Perry did well to maintain a strong pace with a very sick motor. It was fun to have two different winners in two races. Congratulations to both winners and to Fabian for the new track record. The drivers' chatter in the tech area said that the same pro Mazda was so erratic on the pace lap that the surrounding cars could not warm up their tires. He later took out a long time local FS car. From the look of the damage, the FS will not be back on the track for a long time. There were at least 6 very broken cars in the tech area and a long list of drivers that
needed to meet with the Chief Stewart for contact of passing under yellow, or passing under double yellow.
Last Edited By: MellowYellowCJ7 06/30/08 17:23:16.
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EOBrien |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 328 06/30/08 18:18:58 |
Well Well Well......a quick look to mylaps and it is, of course, Patrick O'Neill (a.k.a. PT2) that was the Saturday DQ - wing damage only to later take
someone out. This guy has caused so many issues with car to car contact that SFR needs to get rid of this guy for a long while.
I remember him spinning on the pace lap in the rain at Sears Point and then passing his way all the way to the front before we got the green - nearly taking out 5 cars in the process. The SFR officials need to do more than a slap on the wrist DQ - he probably doesn't care...
~Eric
'99 A-MAC AM6 |
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commodorepdog |
The weekend | #7 | ||
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Posts: 3 07/01/08 22:42:39 |
i don't know if it was Patrick that was the only problem. I defiantly had no incidences with him all weekend however some of the Atlantic's including
the Mazda's were holding up traffic with the constant slow speeds in the turns and drag races down the straightaways. I was just frustrated overall with
the clutter on the racetrack even though i had two very lucky qualifying sessions of open track. it just provided for a very poor race weekend for all the
drivers struggling for racing position only to be held up buy the mazda's. Plus some guys belong in miatas after there actions on the race track. We also
had one driver decide it was in his best interest to get out of his wrecked race car and stand on the exit of turn 10 hopefully ill be able to upload i video
in a short amount of time. without a waving yellow he is standing on the white line. which is the main reason for the early checker in the Sunday race.
Last Edited By: commodorepdog 07/01/08 22:47:32.
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fokoracer |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 180 07/01/08 23:25:17 |
I think it is time that we band together as a group (sports racers) and start putting some heat on the FA/ProMazda crowd to shape up. They are almost
exclusively the cause of every incident that occurs in our group.....and one particular FA driver (ONeil) seems to be a large proportion of those. Why should
their "bafoonery," to use Stan's perfect verb, cause us so much grief?
I recall a letter from the SFR explaining that the ProMazda drivers would be with us at selected regionals as long as it didn't infringe on the usual group suspects regarding registration. Well how about their infringing on our right to have a reasonable start? or to get more than 8 laps in? With regards to ONeil......in my mind there is no question he's solely responsible for the blown start on Sunday. He was on pole, and he jetted away from turn 11 prior to the green. This directly caused the resulting mayhem. It's against the rules, and just plain being a dumb ass. He had TWO incidents in the race on Saturday. He's had MANY incidents over the last couple seasons. He should be put on probation and if he doesn't shape up, then license bye bye!!! I've been fortunate to not yet get taken out by him, but I'm feeling its only a matter of time. From those of you who know the SCCA workings best, can you advise us as to the best way to enter a formal complaint, either individually or as a group? I think if all the SFR sports racers made some noise about how absurd these races are getting, maybe some action will come of it. At the minimum, maybe we can get split starts so we can just stay away from these clowns as much as possible. Remember when one of the reasons people LIKED group 2 was that there was little contact amongst open wheel cars? Fabian |
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Skip Reber |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 164 07/02/08 10:19:30 |
"To loosely quote Bob Fox: Laguna is the track where you pay the most for the least laps." Sounds like the West Coast version of Watkins Glen. Skip |
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Racerweav |
Laguna Seca | #10 | ||
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Posts: 1 07/02/08 18:19:59 |
Fabian,
While I agree with you in the fact that something must be done regarding Patrick O'Neill and his on-track antics, I don't think your comment "They (FA/Pro Mazda) are almost exclusively the cause of every incident that occurs in our group...." is fair. Nearly all of us in group 2 have witnessed, or been caught up in mistakes made by drivers other than FA/Pro Mazda. Let's not forget a particular sports racer driver's mistake at Infineon a few years back which caused a 17 car pileup that probably caused more dollars in damage than all incidents collectively since then. I don't mean to defend or condemn any particular class, but simply want to point out that from time to time mistakes are made by drivers in all classes. Just this weekend we all witnessed an incident in turn 10 involving a FS, FE and FC which unfortunately brought our race to an early finish. Someone mentioned in another post that some of the Pro FM's were parking in corners and drag racing on the straights...I personally had to deal with that all weekend but also realize that many of the Pro FM drivers were on Laguna for their very first time. Having to learn a track during qualifying or a race is obviously not the right thing to do, but with test days not being available at Laguna what choice does one have? I am in complete agreement that SCCA needs to take a serious look at Patrick and some of the incidents he has been involved in; not just crashes but blown starts, out laps in qualifying and pace laps. I don't know the process for initiating this kind of action, or that it is even possible, but would certainly listen to one who does. Bill Weaver FM #67 |
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jgaither |
Track Behavior | #11 | ||
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Posts: 5 07/02/08 19:26:23 |
This isn't complicated. SCCA just won't handle it. If a guy like that shows up at a vintage race and acts up, they put him on the trailer immediately.
Again and it's the 13-13 rule. Amazing how many attitudes get adjusted that way.
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fokoracer |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 181 07/02/08 21:01:36 |
Bill.....
You're right that I may be overstating the case, although I'm not completely sure. While I don't have data to support my statement per se, I just seem to recall a lot of FA crashes causing problems. (last month at LS, the previous month at TH, several episodes at INF and LS last year, etc.) For some reason those incidents all seem to stand out in my mind. And I seem to recall that the starting incident at Infineon a couple of years ago may have been caused by a very similar episode as Sunday's start.....ie the front rows rocketing off Turn 11 and not controlling the speed and organization of the grid. Of course EVERYONE is responsible for their own actions in the end. Just because the radio guy is screaming "GREEN GREEN GREEN" in your ear, doesn't mean you don't see the slower guy right in front of you. It is common sense. However, The pole sitter does hold a lot of responsibility for what happens way back in the pack. I would assume that SCCA keeps track of all incidents though. If there were to be a review of incidents in Group 2 over the past several seasons I suspect the results may be skewed. As always, I may be wrong, but I think at this point it may be wise to inquire. Regarding learning LS..... Tough problem. However, there are other ways, albeit not ideal, to learn the track. Personally, I learned LS driving a street car at DE's. Obviously not ideal, but doable. I too dealt with the parked PM's drag racing to the next corner....It only really ruined my race because it was only 8 laps of racing. I had to work hard to get by them and I just didn't have enough laps to get to the guys ahead of me in my class. That's OK and its part of the game. But when the race is so dramatically abbreviated, well, then it kinda sucks. I'm not really wanting to start a "class war". I would just like for us to get a bit more civilized and have real races, not demolition derbies. Fabian |
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D T Benner |
PT-2 | #13 | ||
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Posts: 71 07/03/08 10:10:35 |
fokoracer wrote:
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ted james |
laguna | #14 | ||
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Posts: 415 07/03/08 13:05:17 |
Nancy and I do not go to Laguna anymore for many reasons. I think the problems at laguna beg the questions, was this one of the World Speed series races
combined with regional races? This group has always been very large so adding cars to it so the region could make some money, good idea? The region sent a
letter at the start of the season that assured the group that adding 10 to 15 Pro Mazdas would be monitored closely and would not be a problem, is it?
It is getting so that the SF region and this group is not a fun place to race anymore. We have been racing in SoCal and at Miller and they do not seem to have this problem. What is wrong in this region? |
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ted arken |
good idea | #15 | ||
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Posts: 2693 07/03/08 19:07:42 |
Darrell, good idea talking to Mike Smith about the antics in group 2. Perhaps we can also do something about the drivers bent on blocking cars in other
classes. We all know who they are, and they do too.
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fokoracer |
#16 | |||
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Posts: 183 07/03/08 20:50:22 |
I've emailed a note to Mr Michael Smith, the SFR board chief exec, outlining my concerns. I would request that you all do the same if this is
bugging you.
While I did mention specific incidents, I primarily requested that they investigate what goes on in group 2, and to pay more attention to repeat offenders. I don't know if they will do anything, but it seems that if the trend continues, we are all going to be picking up our cars with a broom and dustpan eventually. Thanks Fabian |
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Tigaman |
#17 | |||
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Posts: 203 07/03/08 20:56:43 |
Nope, you're just going to lose more cars to other venues...
-Peter
www.peterkrause.net "The driver is the single greatest performance variable in the racing equation." |
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David Arken |
Exclude them, reject their entry, kick them out of the club | #18 | ||
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Posts: 637 07/03/08 21:48:43 |
Peter, I think you are very wrong about losing competitors to other venues, what venues will take the cars we are talking about? Did you read Ted James' post he does not go to LS, I do not go to LS Bob Fox does not go to LS, 2 other D's withdrew. All we are talking about is a couple of bad drivers. The SF Region has to put pressure on the Stewards they control and legislate the rules of competition. What we as members can do is attend the SF Region annual meeting and introduce a motion to kick the offending drivers out of OUR club, it has been done before. We can also pressure the Region to not accept the entry of specific drivers. I personally did that as the SF Region Competition Direction back in the 70's because of a drivers past history. Myself and the Region were threatened with a law suit, the Region backed me and said bring it on, that individual DID not race at LS on that weekend. David |
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KMitz |
Laguna Seca | #19 | ||
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Posts: 18 07/03/08 22:20:43 |
I am in agreement with all. But the one thing to remember is this is club racing where anyone can have there dream come true at being a race car driver. I ran
this weekend and went away frustrated to say the least. I had a pro Mazda driver block two to three moves on the straight then move over under braking. He was
having the race of a lifetime. when I ask him why he said he was racing me? I had to explain the rules but I stil think he didn't get it. I finally did a
bonzi move on the inside of turn 5 to get by and he was gone in my mirrors by T7 These guys need a place to race and we unfortunatly are the only place to go.
we have to be patient and we also need to have driver meetings BEFORE the race and not after the first race at infineon with this big group went very well. We
had a meeting before. I think we all need to thimk of a way to make things better and as a Group come up with a solution. I am tired of not seeing my friends
race at laguna seca because of this and it is not just the size of the group LS brings all the idiots out to race myself included I love the track and any
chance to drive on it I will take it. So back to my point about prior driver meeting and solutions. Lets all get to work on it. If anybody knows the offending
drivers have a talk with them and see what kind of mindset they have on this. Thats my 2 cents worth!
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David Arken |
#20 | |||
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Posts: 638 07/03/08 22:37:28 |
I like what Kevin said more than what I said, and we do have
to do something about Mr O'Neill. The guy is fast and just seems to refuse to learn the rules, like maintaining the pace set by the Pace Car, this was not
the first time he has come a foul of this same rule.
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