"Specific consolidations for the 2009 competition year include: CSR and DSR, and SSB will be
split between SSC and T3. For the 2010 season, the present class structure will be changed to the following 21 revised classes: SM, SRF, CSR/DSR/S2, GTL/GT3,
FP/GP/HP,GT3/DP, GT2/GT3/BP, FF, T1/ST, T2, T3/SSB, SSC/SSB, FV, GT1, AS, FA/FB, FC, EP, F5, FE, and FM. Obviously, competition adjustments will need to be
made by the Club Racing Board for some cars to ensure parity, and some current classes will need to be split between two or more new classes to minimize
competition adjustments."
I must be a little thick. Does this say that Csr,Dsr, and S2 are going to be combined by 2010?
Find it here:
http://www.scca.org/documents/Fastrack/08-fastrack-june.pdf
Text pasted is from page 6.
Tom
June '08 Fastrack
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 Tom Bootz |
June '08 Fastrack |
Lead | ||
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Posts: 101 05/21/08 16:35:12 |
Last Edited By: Tom Bootz 05/21/08 16:41:21.
Edited 1 time.
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Lee Stohr |
new rules | #1 | ||
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Posts: 915 05/21/08 16:40:46 |
Yes, S2 will be combined with CSR and DSR.
FB will be rolled into FA. That is what the BOD decided. |
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Tom Bootz |
#2 | |||
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Posts: 103 05/21/08 16:50:44 |
Just so I'm clear. We are talking about a single class with C/D & S2 being as one? Not 3 classes running in 1 group? As in performance adjustments will
be put in place to make S2 competitive with C / D cars? Enough adjustment so that an S2 could be on the pole of a combined class of C,D and S2?
Sorry I'm obviously having a little trouble getting a handle on this. |
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VehDyn |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 88 05/21/08 16:52:06 |
As I said on Apexspeed, what a bonehead move. FB is a class that is finally picking up some momentum and you stick it in a class where it will be likely
uncompetitive. The FA guys don't want any more weight or restriction on engines to bring them down to us. The FB guys don't want the unlimited motors
and costs that would result in the speeds necessary to compete with the Ralts and Swifts. If they open up the motors, the next move will be to have carbon
fiber chassis' for safety at those speeds.
There have been well over 30 new cars built in teh last year including conversions. Maybe even in the 40s. They may just be obsolete if you are interested in running competitively at the National level. It will be interesting to see their process. Maybe they will tackle health care while they are at it.
Ken
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Lee Stohr |
S2 | #4 | ||
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Posts: 916 05/21/08 16:58:44 |
Just speculation, but the S2 guys will probably leave the club and go elsewhere, mostly vintage.
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KMA4444 |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 309 05/21/08 18:13:31 |
Someone needs to post a vid of feces hitting a rotary air motion device.
MallenAlley.com
Kevin Allen |
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ken kaplowitz |
stand alone | #6 | ||
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Posts: 496 05/21/08 18:48:52 |
further down it says if you finish in the top 10 your stand alone in 2009.What if dsr is in the top 10?
ken kaplowitz |
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VehDyn |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 89 05/21/08 19:28:04 |
I thought that was stand alone for your 2009 Runoffs race. 2010 is when the consolidation occurs for good.
Ken
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RussMcB |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 202 05/21/08 21:09:11 |
If I read it right, the CSR/DSR/S2 consolidation is set for 2010, and CSR/DSR consolidation is being considered for next year.
I wonder if this will be the last year for either CSR or DSR at the Runoffs. Yeh, we FB and FA guys aren't happy about it over on Apexspeed either. Can't imagine either of those classes surviving performance equalization rules. They're so different (not unlike S2 and xSR). Time to start seeing about formula/sports car racing in other clubs. Sad to ponder after 25 years in SCCA.
Russ McBride
Marietta, GA |
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msiri |
June '08 Fastrack | #9 | ||
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Registered User
Posts: 3 05/21/08 21:45:29 |
this is a real kick in the teeth to the S2 guys, as well as the FB class.
Now some questions. so is the new class restricted or unrestricted? C/DSR/S2 Who gets competition adjustments? are cars now going to be looked at by make and model? I think RussMcB is right re the migration effect this may have. I can see C&D in present form but S2 just doesnt make sense unless the class has more restrictions.(e.g. flat bottoms ) Mike Sirianni |
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Duane Dyckman |
Just who knew and when? | #10 | ||
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Posts: 301 05/21/08 22:10:38 |
People seem sanguine about the consolidation when a few months ago there were very definite opinions counter to that concept. Lee when did you hear about the
BOD decision?
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Lee Stohr |
Rules | #11 | ||
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Posts: 918 05/21/08 23:32:51 |
Yuku lost my last reply, so here goes again -
I just found out today about the rules, Advisory Committee members really have no more idea what is going on than any other member. However, we were warned that this was coming - The National Office has assigned a task force to look into revamping the national racing program and the Runoffs. This was mentioned on page 5 of the last Fastrack. "MOTION: 1. To form a task force composed of two members of the CRB, two members of the Staff, and three Board members, to gather information meet and develop a plan for national racing and its championship. The task force shall submit its results by March 31. 2. At its May meeting, or earlier, the Board of Directors will select one plan, to be implemented effective with the next Fastrack publication. a. Selection of any plan will require at least nine affirmative votes of the Board of Directors. b. The Board of Directors will publish the plan, with a full explanation of the goals and reasons, and will commit to the essence of the program for three years." |
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Dave Gomberg |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 934 05/21/08 23:50:04 |
And, I found out about it today as well. Being on the CRB didn't get me an early peek either.
Dave |
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Lee Stohr |
rules | #13 | ||
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Posts: 919 05/22/08 00:39:58 |
I just noticed this sentence in the Fastrack BOD statement -
"Opportunities for new classes such as those using biofuels and hydrogen energy sources must be made possible for the future." Sounds like the BOD has taken a page out of Max Mosley's playbook for Formula 1. We need to get a spy camera into these BOD meetings, who knows what goes on there  
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don.socalpeeps |
rule changes | #14 | ||
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Posts: 11 08/28/05 15:11:43 |
Wow...
I dont know how i feel about this yet. I think the next few days more info will come out and it will make more or less sense. If i had a FB or FA or even a s2 I would be furious right off. Its going to be a little like the pro mazdas. We have a lot around here and they run with FA and are not competitive if a big Ralt or Swift comes to town. If not they run in the front. They have thier own series and dont really show up at run offs or sprints. That maybe the future of FB and (S2 with vintage racing.) We dont have any wf1 so csr and dsr are pretty even in texas but not the rest of the US. Im glad the imsa lites still have a few years left to run and i can run there competitvly if i can learn to drive. Other than that i just got knocked down the ladder quite a few notches behind the fastest wf1s at a runoffs or sprints after this year.
Don Yount
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 Mark Schue |
Lowest Common Denominator | #15 | ||
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Posts: 15 05/22/08 01:00:11 |
I feel like a back of the pack CART team owner who
just got merged with the IRL. Except no one is giving me a new car.
Last Edited By: Mark Schue 05/22/08 01:02:56.
Edited 1 time.
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STRAN 04 |
Thanks S.C.C.A. ! | #16 | ||
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Posts: 134 05/22/08 11:54:41 |
Thanks SCCA ! What the heck is this? ! You have just made my car worthless! Why on earth are you taking 2 thriving classes and
distroying both? Are they trying to make yet another Enterprise class? What is the new class? "CSE" ( C Stohr Enterprise ) Sorry Lee...I'm
not saying you had anything to do with this....but I only see you benefiting from this! I for one have worked VERY hard to develope a car that is becoming
competitive in D ! SCCA can now buy the rights from you and form a n Enterprise class for CSR and do away with the rest of us who build a car in our own shops
and try to be innovative as well as competitive. I DO NOT have a 100K budget or greater to go racing ...this is my hobby! If you all sense that I am a
little pissed....you are correct! Their will be strong letters to follow that will be Politically Correct to the appropriate parties. I really feel sorry for
my friends running in S2...boy do they really get the shaft! I for one will be fighting this cause...although this is a done deal. If they are going to
combine C and D that is one thing...but there is a whole bunch of considerations that needed to go into this. SCCA, I hope, has the rules set in place
already...this will no doubt cost me thousands! Of which I DON"T have! This is NOT a quick fix to combine classes...unless they just wanted a field of
Stohrs. They seem to want to streamline things and do away with the original intent of our classes. No doubt there can be changes made, but WE as a community
should have been involved! SCCA you have really missed the mark on this one and I for one am VERY disappointed in you! I will cool down and I will be
strongly fighting this. I will get off my soap box.....for now! Respectfully yours.
Brian Lindstrand Prince LSR "05 Yamaha R-1 DSR #04 |
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Duane Dyckman |
Competition adjustments | #17 | ||
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Registered User
Posts: 302 05/22/08 12:13:05 |
Lee, Stan, Dave et al, what are your opinions on the timing of competition adjustments, if any right now, for the class consolidation for 2009? I'm just
on the cusp of completing my car. Perhaps it's for the best that it is still in "kit" form, aside from the financial side, at this time. Luckily
I built it with a removable engine bay. Since my car with me would be a little bit north of 1000 lbs I guess I should consider getting the bigger engine.
(anybody want a GDRE Gixxer 1000? ). But I don't want to jump the wrong way - wrong displacement, wrong mfg of the engine, etc. But I want to be ready for
2009. Perhaps George or Richard (Rilltech) can give all of us a short primer on the larger engines and their recommendation on the displacements and engine
mfgs.
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Lee Stohr |
rules | #18 | ||
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Posts: 921 05/22/08 12:30:00 |
Brian, I understand your anger, but you greatly overestimate my influence. You should write the BOD. All their addresses are on the Apex FB site. You can
even run for BOD in your area.
Duane, the Comp Board makes the competition adjustments. They can change those adjustments anytime, so it's hard to know what will be the best package for your car. |
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STRAN 04 |
#19 | |||
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Posts: 135 05/22/08 12:59:18 |
Lee,
I meant no disrespect to you ...yes... I am a little agitated right now...I was just trying to make a point, unfortunately at your expense. I just feel like we are all being hit with something that is NOT what any of us wanted. I will be sending appropriate letters to people...thanks for directing me in the right direction. Brian |
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hgmobile |
Another thought | #20 | ||
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Registered User
Posts: 95 05/22/08 13:08:21 |
I think that if (IF) the proposed FA/FB consolidation results in "slowing" the FA cars, there will be a good number of those cars looking for fenders
so that they can become "SR's". I am not sure that is a good thing for the class. This class is already pushing the financial limits of many
participants and keeping up with converted FA's is going to put a further strain into the equation. It may be that the very best driven and prepared MC
powered cars have a chance at running with the FA's but I think those cars will prevail at many tracks where the hp matters. At present there are not a lot
of converted FA's running in SR but I suspect with the same amount of work that the D crowd has expended on improvements that they too will get
faster/better in a hurry. Time will soon tell what the reduced weights on CSR will do to lap times on the MC powered cars. I cannot fathom what would be
required to make S2 run with C/D SR. Harvey
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