Does anyone have any experience with the Pingel system? I am looking at installing this on my R-1 in my Diasio.
Recommendations, please.
Thanks, Tom in Toronto
Recommendations, please.
Thanks, Tom in Toronto
Pingel Air Shifters
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 Brownslane.diasio |
Pingel Air Shifters |
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Registered User
Posts: 37 07/24/08 12:05:37 |
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KMA4444 |
#1 | |||
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Registered User
Posts: 333 07/24/08 13:14:58 |
We have run the Pingel electric in both our cars. We previously ran them, the electronics were prone to fail at the least opportune times, like there would be
a good time. The best the system worked was on our customer car when in an emergency, I hooked up two relays to replace the control unit.
We don't run them in either car now since the system failed at the double national on our customer car, he didn't get off the false grid for the race. We had already gone to a cable shifter on our car. |
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Jake Latham |
#2 | |||
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Registered User
Posts: 413 07/24/08 14:57:21 |
No personal experience.
Two local Stohr owners have had nothing but problems and are removing theirs. One found significant transmission issues in his gearbox when he refreshed it. Matt Graham had one on his Radical, and had difficulty with this. Also had two damaged transmissions while it was installed, removed it, and none since. I'd steer clear. I ran that engine for 3 years with zero transmission problems, shifting by hand. Still on the fence about air shifters. -Jake |
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erickv |
#3 | |||
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Registered User
Posts: 1 07/24/08 21:58:19 |
We have been using the Pingel for almost 3 years now (as well as a few other systems). The first half of those years we had a lot of trouble with them. We
switched to cable shifters for a short time but those things are just a pain and not nearly as nice as electronic...especially if you are coming from
electronic.
But I've been working with Pingel again this year. They told me they have beefed up the wiring of the system as well as the actuater. I haven't run a full season on it yet, but so far no problems at all. I think they are much better now and the Pingel is a pretty good value. Ultimately, I a lot of how good or bad it is comes in the installation and setup on your car. Eric West Race Cars |
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Racerx21 |
#4 | |||
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Registered User
Posts: 79 07/25/08 04:11:34 |
I've been using a pro-shift from the UK in my F1 sidecar for 3 seasons now and it has performed flawless. I will
be adding one to my AMAC this winter.
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farrout |
#5 | |||
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Registered User
Posts: 89 07/25/08 06:41:23 |
I have a Pingel in the AMAC I bought from Dick Boggs, He has more time in the car yhan I do and may be able to provide more details.
I have also talked with the West guys who run Pingel in some of their cars. Talk to them (Atlanta) CHeck the shift lever on the gearbox after every session (now a West and a Farrout maintenance check). The small bolt has a tendancy to loosen up which allows the lever to move independently around the shaft. This slop in the linkage creates some shifting problems getting into gear. I am going with a longer bolt with a locknut on the end. The solenoid should be supported in the middle. Allows the least rocking movement of the solenoid. The clutchless upshifts are quite quick. Can do clutchless downshifts but I think the stress on the gearbox and drive assembly would be less using the clutch. Timing on the downshifts is everything. I have a tendancy to downshift as soon as I start to brake and sometimes it is too early (poor rev range, chirping tires, etc). There is a finite time between downshifts that has to be observed. I cannot quantify it but it will be obvious if you attempt to downshift too rapidly. Later in some races when everything is hot, I have experienced intermittant problems upshifting into 5th or 6th and some downshifts. Seemed to happen at the same point on track but not every lap. This could be a function of the shift lever loosening up. Need more race time now that I have figured out the shift lever issue. I cannot speak to any internal gearbox issues caused by the Pingel - have not had the car long enough. I love my George Dean 04 GSXR. All-in-all, I love the Pingel
Craig Farr
1999 AMAC AM7 Madison, AL |
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hgmobile |
Electronics | #6 | ||
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Registered User
Posts: 96 07/25/08 15:17:17 |
Most of these systems were designed for motorcycles where they are out in the airstream. In a DSR they are right beside the engines and subject to a lot of
heat. I am reasonably certain that the heat has a less than positive effect on the electronics and on the ability of the solenoid. Experimented with ducting
air to them at Cal Speedway several years ago and it helped. Did not solve my problem of bad linkage design for my particular car. Harvey
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farrout |
#7 | |||
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Registered User
Posts: 91 07/25/08 18:01:56 |
As an afterthought, the Pingel seems to be optimized for the "normal" RPM shift point of a motorcycle. That is not the 11K-12K that we tend to
shift at. When I am taking it easy and shifting at the 8000-10000 range, it shifts a lot easier than at the higher RPM.
Just an observation without any engineering data to back it up.
Craig Farr
1999 AMAC AM7 Madison, AL |
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Phoenix Race Works |
Pingel Systems | #8 | ||
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Registered User
Posts: 10 07/27/08 10:44:28 |
As many have already stated above, the Pingel systems don't seem to be able to stand up in our application....mainly from the heat issue. We have a new
electro-pneumatic paddle-shift system that we've been testing for a while now and I'm 100% sold on it. As many of you know, I was never a fan of these
systems, but this one works well and we've had zero issues with it.
The way our system is hooked up to my F1000 car is that the actuator unit triggers the original "bump shift" lever which is in the sidepod....no heat. Works great, but not everyone has that set up. One thing that may work for people is to use a shift cable to connect to the bike's shift lever (instead of the actuator) and then have the actuator in a cooler area of the car where it would push and pull the other end of the cable. The steering wheel portion of our system is pictured below... 
The paddles move with the steering wheel so you can shift at any time. The effort required to actuate a shift is easy and could be done with one finger. The upshifts can be made "no-lift" and we'll be testing the paddle activated clutch for downshifts soon. The buttons can be wired to scroll through the dash or as a radio "PTT" and we can use an open-top wheel if you require. The connections are Mil-spec plugs and very reliable. Matt Conrad Phoenix Race Works, LLC
Last Edited By: Phoenix Race Works 07/27/08 11:15:06.
Edited 2 times.
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GonMad SPBG |
#9 | |||
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Registered User
Posts: 432 07/27/08 11:30:51 |
We use the same system that Matt mentions on both of our motorcycle-engined race cars, and both have the actuator working directly on the shift lever at the
transmission. We've never had any heat issues at all. We're refilling the onboard tank using compressed air from a old scuba tank filled at the local
dive shop. All of the piping is commercial stainless steel braided brake hoses which are sort of overkill since they don't see much over 100 pounds of
pressure. The only problem we've had was traced to a bad bond between the carbon fiber bottle body and the filler neck. We're very pleased with them.
Marty
Marty Bose - #1 Gopher, GonMad Racing
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VehDyn |
#10 | |||
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Registered User
Posts: 96 07/27/08 11:53:23 |
Marty,
Ken
Ken
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Phoenix Race Works |
Bottle | #11 | ||
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Registered User
Posts: 11 07/27/08 13:51:17 |
Our system can use two types of bottles...either the larger one's filled with air or Nitrogen (size of a Nerf football) that are somewhat difficult to hide
on the F1000 cars (SR's have a ton of sidepod area) or we also have the option of using a small CO2 bottle (size of a beer bottle) which comes from the
paintgun world. The larger bottle can last all day if needed, but the smaller bottles still provide around 1,200 shifts.
Matt Conrad Phoenix Race Works, LLC |
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VehDyn |
#12 | |||
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Registered User
Posts: 97 07/27/08 16:27:48 |
Thanks. Good info, Matt.
Ken
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fokoracer |
Electro-Pneumatic | #13 | ||
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Registered User
Posts: 197 07/27/08 18:11:20 |
No direct experience with the Pingel electric. Only hear through the grapevine that they are quite unreliable.
The electro-pneumatic shifter I use is the Kevin Mitz design. I've been using this since 2004. It is drop dead reliable and requires essentially no maintenance other than refilling the bottle. Some have had issues with leaks bleeding down the bottle, but once that's handled, all is good. It adds a little complexity to your world (compressed air or nitrogen + regulator + fill hose system for refilling). I find that I can easily run two 30 minute sessions with my bottle (a little smaller than a football) though I usually just fill it every session as part of my checklist. I pressurize it to 2000-2400 psi. (standard nitrogen bottle pressure). Some are using higher pressures and probably can get much greater refill times. The equipment is rated to 5000psi ! Highly recommended if you want to got that direction. Call Kevin, he can fix you up with all you need. Fabian |
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BERG |
#14 | |||
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Registered User
Posts: 7 08/06/08 17:25:50 |
anybody tried just a simple soleniod like this
 to actuate the shifter? I was thinking that this acting on a shifter handle like
this would be pretty fool proof and solve the finding N issue. Also would be a good back up for when he whole thing shits the bed!  
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